Value of a Gemini

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maidenaustralia
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Value of a Gemini

Post by maidenaustralia »

Im looking to sell my 1983 gemini sl/x tg, it was my great aunts she didn't drive very much, when i bought it, it had 75000 ks it now has around 80000, it is completely original parts, only has a little cosmetic damage and as far as i know everything else is fine. I am wanting to know how much i should sell it for and also am wondering if fixing the little damage that has been done to it will up the value at all and will it be worth it ? Thank you
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by ghemini »

read this http://www.ozgemini.com/forums/non-tech ... p?p=409402
I would not spend money on it - you wont recoup it.
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Poida
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by Poida »

My opinion... The 'value' of a car is based on what it's insurance market value listing is. What someone bids or pays is not an accurate indicator. I don't consider someone spending $7000 on a Gemini with a listed market value of ~$1200 for a standard car in very good condition makes the car automatically worth $8200.

When someone T bones your car and their insurer offers you $1200, that's what it's worth. When you pay agreed value comprehensive insurance it's not a real indicator of the cars value, it's what YOU choose to value it at, and you pay for it!
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by IZU069 »

And for anyone that has an older car (arguably over 5 years old) and has comprehensive insurance that is NOT an agreed-value policy...
Let's just say that one day they may learn.

I have agreed value. If written off, I get to keep the vehicle.
Now, since I've been offered twice its agreed value even as a wreck - hmmm...
(I have already been hit once by someone that argued roundabouts are "give way to the right". Yeah - we train our drivers really well LOL!)


Otherwise, for selling or buying, it's whatever the value is to the buyer.
And of course the old rule - "mods" costs are rarely if ever recovered.
In fact for old vehicles, it usually reduces the price.
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(Caveat: But I've never owned a Gemini)
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by ghemini »

Poida wrote:My opinion... . I don't consider someone spending $7000 on a Gemini with a listed market value of ~$1200 for a standard car in very good condition makes the car automatically worth $8200.
!
Ooooh, you wouldnt go down to well in that other Gem site saying things like that! lol So is the actual book value around $1200?
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by Poida »

I'm a realist. Pretending it's worth a fortune is just kidding yourself. Here is a quote from an online guide:

HOLDEN GEMINI SL/X TG diesel
Vehicle information
4D SEDAN, 1983, 1.8 lt (4FB1), 5 SP MANUAL
Estimated valuations
Private sale: $1,380 - $1,560
Trade-in: $990 - $1,250
Dealer price: $1,800 - $2,150



HOLDEN GEMINI SL/X TG petrol
Vehicle information
4D SEDAN, 1983, 1.6 lt (G161Z), 5 SP MANUAL
Estimated valuations
Private sale: $1,210 - $1,380
Trade-in: $870 - $1,100
Dealer price: $1,620 - $1,930



http://www.drive.com.au/buy/market_valu ... es=SL/X:TG
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ghemini
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by ghemini »

Sounds about right if you exclude coupes. Now all we have to do is educate all those clowns out there who think they own a gold mine. lol
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by LOK15 »

im a clown.


Those retail prices , from redbook no doubt , are based on the average price for a gemini. I:e someone sells one for $500 and new owner gets it registered , reciept at DOT shows $500 , he them resells it for $3000 , this , given ( guestimate ) as the average for geminis , would value it as a constant , at $2000. The more they sell for a higher price , the more valuable they become.

My old FZR750 , book value was $7000 , the very next year valued at $2000 , i was lucky , i got a $7000 payout when it was written off , it that had happened 12 months later , i'd be getting sweet F'all.

Values are from averages..

600 gems might get sold for $500 , 1 mint one might sell for $10,000 , at the end of the day , its worth what someone is willing to pay for it..
How the hell should i know.. i only work here
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by ghemini »

LOK15 wrote:im a clown.
If you think you got a gold mine, why isnt that lot of 38 being snapped up? :)
LOK15 wrote: Those retail prices , from redbook no doubt , are based on the average price for a gemini. I:e someone sells one for $500 and new owner gets it registered , reciept at DOT shows $500 , he them resells it for $3000 , this , given ( guestimate ) as the average for geminis , would value it as a constant , at $2000. The more they sell for a higher price , the more valuable they become.
There is a post here that claims Redbook uses in part "the trade in/wholesale prices which are obtained via auction achieved price lists." If that is correct, Redbook values will be lower than what the private market will pay.

Any valuation method that simply averages out prices achieved from all sales (rusty old sh1tboxes AND mint standard) is going to be seriously flawed anyway. A valuation is useless unless its done via a physical inspection.
LOK15 wrote: 600 gems might get sold for $500 , 1 mint one might sell for $10,000 , at the end of the day , its worth what someone is willing to pay for it..
Why would you pay 6K/8K/10K when you can get it for $3500? Seen plenty of minters on Ebay go for that. A valuation shoud not be based on someones stupidity.
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by IZU069 »

ghemini hits a few nails on the head.
I think we all know those problems and difficulties. Even if a seller posts pics and a good description, it's still difficult for us (or I should say yous because I have no feeling for Gemini prices) to estimate its price. That's not only because the reality may be somewhat different, but more so because it needs a buyer.
To quote the old marketing line, the price is "what the market will bear".

Some years ago I couldn't sell a good condition road registered GT Bellett for ~$3,000. A few years later someone bought an eBay GT which had been in a shed since it seized 20 years earlier and had rear wheel-arch hacks and dismantled bits here and there for $5,600. Admittedly the victim got into an eBay battle (ha ha), but those even the "tow to the tip" Bellett sedans can now fetch a few $thousand.


The Red Book will trail those upswings. They did IMO over-value the GT a decade or so ago, but that was probably due to a BCCV member that sent them some selective sales info.
But the Red Book is not a retail or private sale book. It is - or was when I was involved - a book used by the trade for evaluations - eg, insurance write-off values, resellers, panel beaters & repairers. It was always understood that private sales would be priced higher, and yard sales higher again. And it did not cater for abnormal vehicles - ie, exceptional condition, low mileage, etc.

I'd assume the Red Book uses median prices as does the Real Estate industry etc. Hence the 1 mint one for $10,000 will not effect the 600 gems might sold for $500. They aren't like the government that naturally favours average values for things like wages etc (which were once ~$5,000 above the median wage, and I suspect now about ~$15,000 above LOL!).
But again, if the Gemini sees an upswing as the old Belletts, Wasps and even Florian have, the Red Book will probably take 2 years to reflect that.


As to modified cars, they rarely recoup their spend. I'm not talking about the cleverly reconditioned or tastefully modified collectables or cheap pickups, but those that spend big on new mags and lush interiors, trick instrumentation and engines etc.
And the Gemini seems to attract a lot of (IMO) money wasters. I recall one that bought a new Magna dizzy only to have it cut and grafted to the top of a Gemini dizzy because he "liked buying stuff new for his Gemini". I would have used the superior RG dizzy - AFAIK it wasn't even a sequential ignition or EFI system! Then there are those that spend heaps on engine enhancements for little gain etc.
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(Caveat: But I've never owned a Gemini)
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by Poida »

I hear what you are saying LOK15, but the reality is, if you buy a car in an open market, it's 'value' is according to what the insurer of the car that slam dunks you will pay. Agreed value prices are NOT a realistic reference to the 'value' of a car. For example, if a TC Gemini coupe is worth thousands of dollars in reasonable condition, why do wreckers just pile them up at the back of the yard among the rest of the shells waiting the crusher? Answer simply is, the market for them is limited. People like us are NOT the norm, we consider them worth more because we have a special interest in them. For the past 10 years or so, there have been the fanatics like us and the young new drivers who bought them for two reasons, they were cheap and they were the current fad.
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by IZU069 »

I'm on a horse.


Actually I might be better off without my agreed value. I only put it (Wasp) at $2k whilst I also had the Florian @ $3k a baker's dozen years ago.

About 2 years ago someone said they'd give me $4k for the Wasp as a wreck so I'd get a total of $6k if I had fun an allowed someone to right it off in a roundabout or a t-bone intersection.

Now if the market value of the Wasp has increased above $2k...

But luckily I contemplate such incidents for fun or educative purposes (I call it due diligence), the money aspect has little importance - even now when I have to borrow for rent.


But no - Agreed Value is not indicative of a sale or market value. It is indicative of the premium you are prepared to pay (and get away with).
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(Caveat: But I've never owned a Gemini)
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by ghemini »

Ahhh, the value of a sh1tbox...always a popular discussion in whatever forum you live in.

I came here for a good argument....
Poida wrote:I hear what you are saying LOK15, but the reality is, if you buy a car in an open market, it's 'value' is according to what the insurer of the car that slam dunks you will pay.
I hear the pragmatism of what you are saying Poida, but on the other hand, is it fair to value a car on the crap amount an insurer gives you? I base this on anecdotal evidence from the many people I have heard whine of the lousy payout their insurers give when it is not agreed value. Its not as though insurers play, or pay fair, is it?
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by Poida »

Fair or not, it's the system we live with and it's difficult to argue with insurance companies. They'll just suggest you should have opted for agreed value if you were unhappy with the market value. There has to be some sort of yardstick and that insurance value book is it.
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Re: Value of a Gemini

Post by IZU069 »

I thought we were talking about the buy-sell value of a Gemini, not the insurance or market value...
[ Insurance being market (as in Red Book or actuarial etc) unless Agreed. ]
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